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Night's Dawn- A Homeworld 2 Total Conversion

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'Night's Dawn- A Homeworld 2 Total Conversion'
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deathjester's user image
08.10.2003 - 14:47
forum administrator
Please see this thread before reading on.

Due to the very high levels of realism in Hamilton's universe, it makes for a fairly difficult task when trying to map it to enjoyable gameplay under the HW bracket.

When u think cafefully about his depictions of space combat (range to targets/acceleration/combat wasps/ship specs) you quickly realise that it's actually impossible to do that level of realism justice while maintaining 'fun' in an RTS or RTT game.

Compromise is definitely the only way forward.

I've put looaaads of thought into this but I'll just offer my conclusions rather than writing about how i got to them (that can all be discussed spontaneously).

* two playable forces: Confed vs Possessed
* room for scenarios and single player missions
* go for an RTS, not an RTT
* abstract the resource model to anti-matter harvesting (to spend on ship 'upgrades')
* abstract ship building to waves of re-enforcements, based on a point system (players pick which ships they want to jump in)
* abstract research/upgrades into spending antimatter on 'upgraded' tech (eg. AM fueled ships and combat wasps), so when u pick your ships you can pick the ones which also demand an allocation of AM as well as points
* use the 'mothership' / 'construction yard' concept to provide critical targets.
*use a full fuel model
deathjester's user image
08.10.2003 - 15:06
forum administrator
* use a full ammo model (for wasps)
* use 'realistic' flight model for wasps (so once lauched they are commited 99/100)
* have different kinds of wasps (payloads/sub munitions)
* exagerate ship strenghts/weaknesses to provide rock-scissors-paper game balancing between all units and abilities
* use a hefty level of poetic license and abstraction with the map to promote strategic play (planets/nebulas/asteriod belts etc etc, all reduced to about 1:1000000000)
* abstract combat wasp launching to HW 'combat stances' eg. if in 'aggresive stance' fire all wasps at enemy targets; in 'defensive stance' launch them to neutralise incomming wasps; in 'balanced stance' launch 50/50ish
* add gamplay mechanics for SOME micromanagement controls eg. emergency thrusters (dodge incomming wasp).

boss is lurking.... brb
deathjester's user image
08.10.2003 - 15:23
forum administrator
* promote force diversity- the two forces basicly have access to the same kit :( We can shake this up a litte by reducing the effectiveness of adamist ships in the possessed force (due to their mayhemous magic fields) and buffing up the bitek stuff (Mmm, possessed voidhawks). the special abilities should reflect this too (posd get magicy specials [including possession itself!); confed get more conservative ones like robot boarding parties or somthing)

* preserve ship handling according to the books- try to keep the use of the units intuitive

* possibly spawn the starting fleets according to a CHOICE of 'mothership'. Eg, bitek habitat or adamist spacestation? (mmm, possessed habitats)
deathjester's user image
08.10.2003 - 15:30
forum administrator
Hmm, definitely blurring the RTS bubble closer into the RTT bubble.

The problem is that the ND combat is clearly biased towards that sort of model as a result of the combat wasp.

Still, with each force CONTINOUSLY bringing in re-enforcements irrespective of territory claims (albeit a much less effective set of re-enforcements if you can't afford the antimatter for more powerful units), scouting for the enthinking ahead and manouvring your fleet into a dominant position remains the core gameplay element.

At least, this is the case under the above design.


slate it / slam it / start again- dont care lets work some ideas out :)
richard's user image
08.10.2003 - 15:52
forum administrator
Like it! Any room in this for fusion? We could have the basic fusion refineries which are dead cheap to make, but you get less performance with ships that only use fusion drives. Anti-matter stations require huge amounts of (fusion) energy to produce, but the ships which use them are much faster/more manoeuverable, better damage / better combat wasps etc etc.!

Don't forget your bog-standard beam weapons etc. for ships / wasps.

TIP Carbines? Basically smart-bullets, but not sure how useful these would be in space - more of an upgrade for your boarding parties?

Any need for Jovian Credits? Maybe only the adamists/edenists need money, as possessed work on a 'favours' system. I.e. build this ship for me and I'll magic up some gorgeous ladies for you to play with...
deathjester's user image
08.10.2003 - 18:27
forum administrator
ooo jovian creds.... totally overlooked that.
that defo needs to be in there somewhere.

TIP carbines- yea boarding party upgrade nice one.

I think some1 needs to buy that Confed Handbook thingy Hamilton wrote up for the ND fans.

and i need to get that mindmap started/shared.
deathjester's user image
08.10.2003 - 19:31
forum administrator
ric gimme addy so can send hooky HW2 copy
deathjester's user image
08.10.2003 - 20:04
forum administrator
right, well i cant do much with the models- ive extracted the meshes and the textures, but I havent got 3d modeling kit or even a lowly renderer :(

emule is on the case, but itll take a good week (cant get a thing off usenet atm [bastards]).

plenty of time for design work :)

NELSON! u is awful quiet. Didnt you like ND ? I'm sure you did. Maybe you've just realsied you're getting married.

LOL but more to the point, that prolly explains where riggie is.

Poor, poor girl....
richard's user image
09.10.2003 - 10:00
forum administrator
I have the Confed. Handbook!

I don't think Nelson ever read the ND trilogy, much to my disappointment...

I'm sure I used to have 3ds max...
deathjester's user image
09.10.2003 - 10:42
forum administrator
i've found an alternative source and shoudl have 3DSM v5.1 with a very big collection of plugins and models ready for me when i get home tonight.

...just need to learn how to use it (!)

As for ND background, after much spidering I found this

if you trunkate that URL back to /scott.halls/ then u get into his site, and find that he is actually cheekily hosting the old confed site that the search engines have dead links for. Talkabout a stroke of luck- i spent ages following links to that confed site which nolonger exists at its original domain.

Might email this scott mills chap- he can make models (look in his gallery). Ok, the Lady Mcbeth is a bit crap, but we got no idea how old/what PC he had at the time, and the Orion class ship he did looks fairly good, decent textures too. He clearly digs the ND universe to boot.

A Modeler who clearly has a strong affinity for Sci Fi and ND itself. Think we should invite him along ?

Ordered the handbook from amazon last night :)

Came up with a few more design ideas:

* while we shoudl have different classes of frigate/destroyer etc, i think the class you are re-enforced with shoudl be random; you simply request a 'frigate'. This would promote strategy over mmt (micro management tricks) and make the fleets more diverse/groovy
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