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Who let the bombs fall?

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'Who let the bombs fall?'
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nelson's user image
nelson
04.03.2003 - 10:14
forum administrator
Sorry, not true.

Whoever power ppl "in charge" have is given to them by the people - it's a basic concept in politics. Those ppl then have a duty to carry on their work in accordance with the values and will of the people who put them there.

They might have access to more detailed information than the common citizen, but the extent to which that information is used is tied to the "greater good" for the population, to their approval, and to their long-term values. If there is a conflict at this stage, it needs to be clarified - that's how democracies work, and what you described was a dictatorship, DJ.

Please remember how easy it is for people surrounded by military and intelligence reports to loose touch with other values - come on! During the Cold War there were American policy-makers willing to nuke the USSR, because they thought that the US wouldn't loose more than 25% of their population and those would be "acceptable losses"!

And no, there isn't that little you can do. Civil disobidience has brought governments down. It has even kicked empires out of their colonies... I think this government is very quickly loosing touch with its people and its role...
online_again's user image
online_again
04.03.2003 - 10:24

Just a little thing: there has been documented in the USA now that the governemnt has started to sell and buy project for rebuilding Iraq for larger entrepreneurs in the US and UK.

Now, i don't think this is planned as a method of helping Iraq...
deathjester's user image
deathjester
04.03.2003 - 12:52
forum administrator
You are describing how things are suposed to work- im advocating that that isnt how things actaully work at all.

How many political decisions have been made since u could vote? How many of those did u have a say in?

10000:1 ??

The reality of this situation is that we live under the illusion of what u describe; but that if i ask you 'ok nelson how do i challenge the current government to point out that they are acting without a mandate?' you'd be a bit stuck.

In fact I think you'd be a lot stuck ;)
online_again's user image
online_again
04.03.2003 - 13:33
You also seem to advocate that there is no point in caring because it wont work anyway.

Now that is scary. Obvioulsy with that frame of mind nothing will work, and so there won't be a point. Knowing that something is wrong and not bother to do something because "it wont work anyway" is just to give up before you have even tried.

Look at the votes in the Parliament recently. Just because Blair decides not to take it into consideration, doesn't mean that it doesnt matter what those people voted. On the contrary, it shows that trouble is brewing, and it wouldnt even have been visible if they have all thought "it doesn't matter what I do, because I can't make a difference anyway".

All revolutions, failed or succeeded, pressure groups, organisations and etc. must have started with one person or they wouldnt have started at all.
deathjester's user image
deathjester
04.03.2003 - 14:43
forum administrator
I have over-emphesised the 'there is no point' thing then, cos I think there IS (I'm not a complete nihilist!)

BUT

You got to be in a position of enough relevence to actually make the fact that you care manifest, and then you need to be in an even more relevent postion to actaully do soemthing about it directly.

In this context, 'relevence' to me equates to 'power', be it thru military/political/sexual/financial/numercial/other elements.

A few students whining is NOT relevent ;)

A few national leaders ARE.

A single weapons inspector is.

1 million demonstrators are (ish. very ish)

A single weilder of nuclear arms is...
online_again's user image
online_again
04.03.2003 - 15:59
OR: A few students whining to the right people can cause more people to care which can make those national leaders stand up...

As a "powerless" person there might be little to do, but by going together with people with the same opinion a lot can be done. Hate bringing Amnesty Int. up again, but it did all start with one single guy writing a letter to a newspaper.

If that is not enough, well then get a job as a weapon inspector!
richard's user image
richard
04.03.2003 - 16:44
forum administrator
...or run for your local government!
online_again's user image
online_again
14.03.2003 - 09:39
yah.

Or natioanal Governement... ;)

Anyway, I am sure you have all picked up the fact that US is preparing themselves to go to war either without Britain or with less participation from Britain because of the "internal conflict".
Now, DJ... if that demonstration had not happened in London (talking about being able to affect decision making people here) do you think the outcome would have been the same?

I don't. If it wasn't because of all the people demonstrating and lobbying MPs, they wouldn't even considered cutting Britain's role in the war down.
richard's user image
richard
14.03.2003 - 17:02
forum administrator
Yeay! I'm very happy about that...
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